P-Momma did a post on a pastor who "used to be an atheist". Often, those of us on the blogosphere will hear about those who seem to use their former "atheism" to give them some extra credibility. Unfortunately, they also often start talking about how they used to live a life of debauchery and immorality before they converted to whatever religion they now follow.
The sad thing is, this is the view that most people hold of atheists. Since atheists have no god(dess) they have to obey, then they should be greedy, murderous, and have horns and a tail. Unfortunately, those who have that view of us have never studied any philosophies other than the Christian one, or whatever religion they find favorable. By and large the ethics of a non-believer and a believer will coincide. It boils down to avoiding hurting others, either physically or emotionally, and trying to improve lives.
When those who "used to be an atheist" start talking about how bad of a person they were before they became "born again" I have a tendency to just shake my head in pity. What I see is someone incapable of living a decent and respectful life without being told what they are supposed to do. Basically, they've never examined how their actions affect those around them, or even looked at the basics of philosophy.
If you want to have a conversation or debate with me, please don't say you were once an atheist. It lends about as much credibility as saying you were once a teenager. No two teenagers are alike, and no two atheists are alike. Each non-believer took a different path to arrive at where they are now, much like every other living being on the planet. You saying that you were once like me is not only insulting and dismissive, but stops me from even wanting to continue the conversation or debate because of your misconceptions of my life.
If you want to find out about my views, ask me. Using your own past to make up a straw man about my current views and ethics is insulting. It's like every teenager who hears an adult telling them how much better they have it. It's a load of bull, because that adult is no longer a teenager and still assumes things haven't changed.
If you weren't a good person before you believed in your deity of choice, perhaps you should reexamine yourself. Especially since your behavior before your belief has nothing to do with mine now.
September 2, 2008
You used to be a what?
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5 comments:
What is sad is in my situation, I have always been an atheist. My husband grew up in a very christian home, around 15 he declared his atheism. My in laws are still very much about god and what not. My mom thinks if I were to go to church, I could become a 'better person'. That hurts to no end, basically, she is telling me that I'm not good enough the way I am. My parent do not go to church, I would call them theists at best.
I feel that I am no different from my in laws. I love my family, difference there is that they come first. I am just as much of a law abiding citizen as they are. What more do I need to be? I don't get it. Is it calling yourself a christian, people just automatically asume you are a wonderful, well-rounded person?
Sorry for the ramble.
B,
I said it on PMomma's blog and I'll say it again here, I think this "professor" never truly considered himself an atheist in the first place. He's just saying that now, to try to lend himself credibility, as you say. The difference between him saying "I used to be..." and former theists saying that is the fact that in most of the theists cases, it's actually true. (I have yet to meet anyone who says they were a christian and is now an atheist who doesn't seem credible.) When atheists say they used to be believers or were brought up to believe, it's usually because they are trying to use something from their past experience to enlighten someone who is currently in their position. The flip side of that coin is "former atheists" using it as some sort of "Well, I'm just obviously a better person than you now." or "I used to be foolish like you, I got over it."
I'm not sure I'm getting my point across but on PMomma's blog, I mentioned the immaturity of the tone of the article. It's as if they are trying to seem superior, as if non-belief is something they grew out of instead of using their supposed non-belief as a mechanism to understand others. Does that make any sense?
@ Aimee:
That's not rambling, that's venting. It's also a really good point. For some, no matter how "good" of a person you are it's not enough unless you also believe in a higher power.
As I was moving away from religion, it seemed that everyone around me was going toward it. Fortunately, the most important person, my wife, doesn't think organized religion has the answers. So, she's more willing to judge me by my actions and not my beliefs.
However, my mom and dad have become more active in church the last few years. My dad is now an elder. Since they live several hours away it's been difficult to approach the subject. I plan on telling them eventually, but I think it's going to be a delicate subject to approach.
@ Terra:
I agree. However, I think that in debates and conversation we should just take "I used to be a..." completely off the table. For instance, I was raised in a primarily Pentecostal and Baptist family. To other denominations they might not consider that a "true" Christian. So, we have to deal with the individual and not the branch of faith, because each individual has their own beliefs.
I think I understand what you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong. Instead of thinking that they've changed for a reason and others may have also, they make assumptions. They assume that since they didn't believe in a deity, lived an unethical life, but then became (what they see as) a better person after they became religious that the other non-believers must be the same as them. Instead, they should be using their former non-belief to examine the different viewpoints that are available instead of being so dismissive of individuality. I hope that makes sense.
Excellent point. I used to give more credence to someone who "used to be an atheist" for all of the reasons you stated in this post.
But then I grew up.
As someone who "used to be a Christian" I completely identify with this statement you made: "What I see is someone incapable of living a decent and respectful life without being told what they are supposed to do."
Sad, but true. Thankfully, I'm realizing that a person's actions are just that... actions. Not beliefs.
There is another kind of "I used to be an atheist" person. When my wife dragged me to her Alpha Course wrap party, I got to see a few of them. In their speeches they said they used to be atheists but you could tell just from their attitudes and stories that they had never thought much about religion at all before coming to Alpha, and had probably never identified with the term "atheist" before someone at Alpha told them that that was what they were.
I'm guessing that there is a little bit of negative imprinting onto the new converts' minds at this point. They've been told how much better their lives would be as Christians; however, their lives really don't change particularly just from Alpha, so they're forced to modify their memories to make their old atheist selves worse than they actually were.
Or I could be completely out of my gourd here and it's just that these pastors are all lying jerkwads ;-)
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