Okay, here's the story as I've heard it.
P-Momma has been linked to some comments made on another blog, because a distant relative stayed with P-Momma for a while. The relative used P-Momma's internet connection, and made some comments on that blog.
Well, here's P-Momma's side of the story:
[quote removed at P-Momma's request. Basically, you can read what she told them on their blog, but they say it she's lying.]
Well, I did a bit of back checking. On the blog that made the accusations, the first mention of P-Momma's blog was in this post.
Now, you'll have to forgive some incomplete information, because they don't provide links to some past details and I haven't had time to see if I can find them.
In that first post, that references P-Momma, they don't actually call her by name. However, as someone who's a frequent visitor, and moderator/author, to her blog I recognized the references. If you visit the link, you can find out everything they said, but there was one part that got my attention.
Reading through this woman’s blog, she appears at times to be fairly normal. The subject of the blog, incidentally, is one that is certainly incongruous with the persona that Penn Mommy presented – this blogger is a fervent atheist (which made me a bit queasy, considering how many times PM and “William” entreated posters to pray for “Jason”). She appears to have issues with certain choices the Gosselins have made - possibly their religious devotion and the fact that they chose to have multiples. This may explain how she became involved in the Gosselin blogosphere and made the decision to create Penn Mommy.
[emphasis mine]
I'll leave out the "poisoning the well" concerning her atheism, because the part that struck me is in bold. I checked P-Momma's blog, since I still have access, and I could only find one post that even referenced the Gosselins in passing. There were only two posts that referred to Jon and/or Kate. The first is the one previously linked, and the other is about someone else named Kate. Granted, P-Momma didn't agree with Jon and Kate, but one post doesn't imply the obsession that the other blogger implies.
Then, in another post they make a tenuous connection to P-Momma, and spin a conspiracy theory out of it. I tried to make a comment there, but it never made it through moderation. They've even made statements about IP addresses, but haven't backed it up. Although, someone actually gave me phone numbers. IP addresses, while traceable, aren't as much of an invasion of privacy as a phone number.
Well, I did a phone number check, on two sites (here and here), and actually found a name for one of them. It definitely wasn't P-Momma, and none of the phone numbers were the one that I have for her.
The first number the anonymous commenter gave me just kept ringing. The second number didn't have anyone in the household that went online (plus the P-Family isn't hispanic), and the third is a disconnected/not in service number. The one phone number I did contact thanked me for letting them know. Know how I found all that out? I actually called them instead of just putting them online for the world to see, and saying they were involved in some sort of drastic conspiracy theory.
Now, following all of this is difficult, because the accusing blogger doesn't use links to support what they say. The only things they link to are the main websites, and screen captures that they took themselves. Apparently, they've never heard of Google Cache. (Hint: That's how you can still read the posts that I linked to from P-Momma's now invite-only blog.) Their evidence, besides the IP addresses, Bakersfield, and the "phone numbers". Well, they say that a comment was made on their blog from the same IP address, which P-Momma tried to explain above, and that there are similar postings between P-Momma and her supposed sockpuppet.
One is about a cease and desist posting by P-Momma, and another about a cease and desist the supposed sockpuppet had received (They didn't link to it, so I'm not sure where to find it). They insinuate that this means both bloggers must be the same one, but they ignore two other possibilities. The first could be simple coincidence, or the supposed sockpuppet could have actually faked it and gotten the idea from reading P-Momma's blog. Neither one of those actually incriminates P-Momma, though.
Then, there's P-Momma's postings about P3's appendicitis. You read P-Momma's account in the quote at the beginning, but I noticed something that the accusers had on their blog.
On this particular blog, the poster states that her five-year old daughter had recently been stricken with appendicitis. The name and age of the daughter are identical to that mentioned in an email from "William" that mentions the girl as a second cousin who is also ill with appendicitis.
Ummm... Doesn't that support P-Momma's explanation?
Basically, unless they can give some better evidence, the only way you'd buy it is to put on a tin-foil hat. Ironically, they won't even let P-Momma explain. Here's Guinevere's decision concerning P-Momma.
We are not posting comments from the woman who calls herself Possummomma/Penn Mommy. Nor comments that quote her words on her other blog. We're not trying to stifle discussion, but we've decided that we do not want to give her a voice. All she has done so far is lie, and it's caused a lot of harm.
[emphasis mine]
Well, they are not only not giving her a voice, but I haven't seen one other comment on their blog being skeptical of P-Momma's involvement. Perhaps it's coincidental, but I do find it suspicious. Especially since the comment I left never made it through moderation.
According to the same comment that included the phone numbers, P-Momma also has several sockpuppets. Including "Bananabethana, pennmommy, Corinne, BK, and who knows who else are all her sockpuppets. David is another." I'll bet that'll be a surprise to Bethanna who's emailed me and I compared her IP address to P-Momma's. Sorry, that didn't check out. As far as the others, they'll have to do better than "they all live in Bakersfield". Bethanna is a neighbor, and I found a post (which I won't link to since it included names) where David talks about actually knowing P-Momma outside of cyberspace. Considering how many people I chatted with via email during the fundraising effort, P-Momma has no shortage of online friends who actually know her in real life too.
Basically, what it boils down to is the folks at GDNNOP forget that what they're doing isn't just something that stops when you shut down your computer for the night. There are real people out there that your actions affect. Since it was an anonymous comment, I have no idea who left those phone numbers. However, doing so before verifying that the phone numbers where of people actually involved (let alone people that wanted their phone numbers put onto the fucking WORLD WIDE web) was just idiotic.
Before you make accusations, start giving out people's real names and phone numbers, and spreading crap around you'd better make damn sure that what you are saying is the truth. I honestly don't care what PennMommy said on their blog or any other. What I care about is that they involved a friend of mine, and called her a liar, fraud, and con artist.
That's where they crossed the line. P-Momma's life is difficult enough without a bunch of prima donnas who worship a "reality" TV show making it worse.
65 comments:
I was very upset to see that her blog became invite only. I've been reading it since the drive to get her that uv film. I found it to be very interesting. It's really to bad that people hurt her like this.
@ Anonymous:
1. If you're so involved in this, quit posting as anonymous. Stop hiding behind anonymity.
2. You're the one who's making these claims, and apparently has done the research. Give me links on where to find them. It's not difficult. Just type in [a href="*url here*"]*text*[/a]. Replace the [ and ] with the greater than and less than symbols, and change the stuff between the * and * with what I showed. It's not difficult. Anyone who can trace an IP should be able to do it.
3. Show us the fucking IP addresses that are so damning.
4. She hasn't always been an atheist. Perhaps the "heaven" comment was from pre-deconversion times.
5. It's time to put up or shut up. Either give the information, with links, or shut the hell up. You keep doing the Gish Gallop (see how easy linking is) and expecting me to refute every damn thing you say.
Sorry, it doesn't work like that. You've made the accusations, and it's up to you to prove them. So, either get to it, or STFU!
And stop pissing me off when I have insomnia.
I'm reposting the comment by anonymous to get rid of the personal information. P-Momma has pseudo-anonymity on the internet, and until they support their accusations it should remain that way.
Anon said:
Ask your friend a few questions. Why her supposed nephew has not appeared in an obituary, why he and his brothers were never on Facebook (which any kid that age is on). Why USC has no record of Jason Haas being enrolled, why there is no mention of Jason and his illness and death in the school paper or anywhere in California or PA.
Ask her how she spells her sister's name, because it is spelled differently every time she has mentioned it. Ask her why she has posted on two different sites saying in the first, that she miscarried twins at 12 weeks, and in the second post that she miscarried twins at 16 weeks.
Ask her why she has posted on sites for parents of deceased children saying that the deceased child must be the brightest angel in heaven. This from an atheist?
Maybe you should do your own research on Peppermint Patty, JHawksgirl and [Name Redacted].
This information is easy to look up. The sites that she has taken down are cached.
You people paid $5000 for window film? The collections for the nephew were next.
What is this? High school? What a bunch of idiots.
To anonymous, this crap is exactly why my kid DOESN'T have facebook or myspace accounts, so your idea that "any kid that age" has one is obvious bunk.
All people who die do not end up in obits. My father died, and we didn't put an obit for him (I thinks its cheesy). Further, did you read ALL the newspapers to check? yeah I didnt think so.
everyone should just drop the childishness. If you can't handle comments on your blog, stop blogging. Its pretty easy.
Okay. Now I've had a little sleep and can function better.
Ask your friend a few questions. Why her supposed nephew has not appeared in an obituary, why he and his brothers were never on Facebook (which any kid that age is on).
First of all, he's a distant relative, not her nephew. You apparently haven't been paying attention.
Second, you made what is called a hasty generalization. That a number of people are on facebook does not mean that any particular person is on facebook. Regardless of their age. Also, you're asking P-Momma to explain the actions of others. Let me ask you why your cousin doesn't belong to the chess club?
Third, finding obituaries is harder than you may think. I had a cousin die a few years ago, I was at the funeral, but I still haven't found his obituary. Not being able to find it means absolutely squat.
Why USC has no record of Jason Haas being enrolled, why there is no mention of Jason and his illness and death in the school paper or anywhere in California or PA.
Maybe you should ask his mom. P-Momma has her own kids to keep track of. Also, perhaps USC has a privacy policy, for just this reason.
"Somebody's appendix burst. STOP THE PRESS!" Nearly 400 people per year die of appendicitis. How many articles concerning them have you read?
Ask her how she spells her sister's name, because it is spelled differently every time she has mentioned it.
Again, not her sister. It's a distant relative. Try keeping up.
Ask her why she has posted on two different sites saying in the first, that she miscarried twins at 12 weeks, and in the second post that she miscarried twins at 16 weeks.
Link to where she said that, and we'll deal with it then. Otherwise, you'd doing the "Why did Sally say she was 14 in the lunch room, but 13 in class?"
Ask her why she has posted on sites for parents of deceased children saying that the deceased child must be the brightest angel in heaven. This from an atheist?
Again, as I pointed out above, she wasn't always an atheist. She was once Catholic. Perhaps you read something she wrote from the time before she became a non-believer.
Also, you still haven't linked to anything.
Maybe you should do your own research on Peppermint Patty, JHawksgirl and [Name Redacted].
Why? I'm not the one accusing her of being a liar, fraud, and con artist. You're the one making the claim, it's up to you to support it.
This information is easy to look up. The sites that she has taken down are cached.
Then why don't you and GDNNOP link to them instead of just saying it's true?
Imagine this:
Judge: "What evidence of her guilt do you have, council."
Lawyer: "The defendent lied about [everything you listed], your honor."
Judge: "What proof of this do you have."
Lawyer: "I found it, but you'll have to look for it, your honor."
The judge would probably not only set the defendant free, but also charge the lawyer with contempt of court.
Hopefully, this little civics lesson will help you understand why the policy is "innocent until proven guilty".
You people paid $5000 for window film? The collections for the nephew were next.
Next? She got the check for the remainder of what was collected almost eight months ago! Also, you're still implying that P-Momma is the same person as her distant relative. Something you have still yet to prove. Until you prove that, you don't have a leg to stand on.
Nothing you've said even comes close to proof of your assertions or insinuations. Honestly, I'm not even concerned if Jason's mother has been lieing. What I'm trying to deal with is your accusations against P-Momma. Until you can prove that P-Momma and Penn Mommy are the same person, what was written on the GDNNOP and your comment here are libel.
I was so bummed to find out this went invite-only. I miss reading it!
Erm, I don't want to be pushy or anything, but do you know how I can request an invite? I love Pmomma's blog. Never commented much, but always enjoyed reading.
@ Allyson:
Go ahead and send me an email, about it. P-Momma may not be blogging at all anymore, but I'm going to start a list of those who want to keep reading her stuff, just in case.
This is possibly the most idiotic thing I have seen on the inter-tubes in a long while ( and I read Ray Comfort everyday!). I hope PM doesn't give up on her blog. She gives a needed perspective that is normally right on the money. Add a check to the "Don't give up" column for me.
I'm still confused as all get-out. I've tried deciphering what they're ranting about over at that blog, but I got lost amongst the TWoPs, GWoPs and the bizarre world of reality show fandom.
So a distant relative of Possummomma was staying at her home and posted to the show fan-blog under the name of "Penn Mommy", and now the show fan-blog folks are saying that Possummomma IS Penn Mommy? Is that the gist of it?
I tried posting to their blog, but either there's a huge backlog of comments or they're not allowing anything that doesn't feverishly agree with them.
Internet craziness at it's best, and I'm not surprised PM just wants to walk away from it all. I know I would have if I'd received just some of the flak she's been putting up with. It's a great loss to all of us who've enjoyed reading her stories and thoughts over the past couple of years.
(Again, anon violated what I've been saying and posted a name, address and phone number, among other things. So, I've had to start comment moderation.)
Anonymous said...
Berlzebub?
Sorry but your P-Momma told us many times that Pennmommy was her SISTER and that Bethana is her sister as well as BK.
Pennmommy and her three sons do not exist!
if they do not exist, then your p-momma made it all up.
See where we are all at here?
By the way, why are you giving a person off the net $5000.00 ?
The [full (and apparently christened) name redacted]
that resides at:
[Full address redacted]
[Phone number redacted]
Is married to a college professor with his doctorate and must make TONS of cash, and not need a handout!
Here is her Dr hubby's webpage:
[Link redacted]
Why would people be making all of this up?
Basically I think [Name redacted]/P-momma has issues. She is very intelligent, YES, but intelligent people commit crimes too.
(I'll deal with this later. If any of the rest of you want to have some fun with it, have at it.)
@ Anon:
Quite doing the Gish Gallop and moving goalposts. I've repeated asked for you to supply me with evidence that the IP addresses all correspond with P-Momma. I'm getting tired of playing with you.
Perhaps it was my comment that never made it through moderation that got your attention.
(For anyone interested, I submitted this comment on their blog. It should have appeared sometime after 3:00 P.M., after this comment.)
-------------
Sorry for being off topic, but you've closed the comments in the comment I'm referring to
Before you "move forward", I would suggest you look at the definition of libel:
"An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community."
If what you've posted here affects someone in the future, for instance if they are looking for a job and your statements cause them to not get it, they can bring a civil suit against you.
So, unless you are sure that you have enough to prove everything you've said, I would suggest you print a retraction to your statements. Wanting to "get back to business and move forward" is fine, but you've made statements that can impact some people later on. Unless you are willing to support what you say in a court of law, you shouldn't say it.
FYI, that's 3:00 P.M. EDT, 12:00 P.M. PDT
He's not my nephew. That was easy. I think the family did post information regarding memorials and funerals. From what I hear, they had to pull them all because even that wasn't good enough for people and some women with nothing better to do started leaving uncompassionate commentary. Nice.
I don't have any sisters (, either. I have sisters in law, but that's not quite the same. But, this is exactly what I'm talking about. These people don't care about the truth.
People with lupus can also suffer multiple miscarriages. In fact, people who have one miscarriage will frequently have another. But, thank you for making a mockery of the pain and suffering my husband and I felt.
I've been an atheist for almost four years. Not before.
I'm still not sure why my life's history is being revisited. I'm not pennmommy. I think that's been proven. Then again, in one comment there were four facts that weren't facts.
I have never said either of those two names were sisters. Try again. I don't have biological sisters.
I don't know why I am about to bother writing what I'm about to write, but here's the situation. You guys are frantically grasping at straws trying to prove that I'm someone I'm not. In the process you are disclosing personal information about my family, my friends, and the way I live my life. Why? I'm not pennmommy. Never claimed to be. My name was used in ways I never authorized. My computer was, and continues to be, compromised by people trying to gain remote access. Why? My theory is that short of proving their claims, certain people haev decided that they'll now MAKE the pieces fit.
(I received another comment from anon. Of course, yet again they dropped in a name. Ironically, I have a surprise for them below.)
Anonymous said...
Berlz?
You say you have a phone number for your friend Possummomma, right?
Yes, I do. That isn't the one I have. I just checked my cell phone to verify it.
Go to Intelius.com and spend the 4$ to trace that number. If it doesn't trace back to a Mrs. [name redacted, again] at the address I gave you then you have been had.
Actually, you've made a mistake. You got ther name slightly wrong. In case you are giving out the wrong number, I've contacted the woman in question to see if it's her phone number. I'll let you know if/when she emails me back.
I also have P-Momma's mailing address, because we've exchanged gifts between Munchkin and P3. So, I've verified who she is through multiple sources.
Basically she still has not supplied us with proof that [All names redacted] exist.
That's odd. Because someone else said that the blog you come from doesn't know how to use sitemeter. IIRC, they verified that PennMommy was back in PA.
(Note: the blog is invite only. If someone perhaps knows that blogger, I would appreciate an email from them.)
Since Corinne is her sister it would have been very easy to take one of us private and supply us with a verifiable address and phone number for said sister so we can trace it and say the sister exists. But she refused.
Well, you don't know me either, but I'm not giving you information on my family. Considering how irresponsible you've been so far, I don't blame anyone for keeping you in the dark.
Besides, you're supposed to have that IP address smoking gun. Why haven't you used it, yet.
Ball is in HER court not ours.
She made up the elaborate lies, many many people cared and prayed etc and it was a big lie.
Cared and prayed? In other words, the only investement was emotional. IIRC, didn't PennMommy ask that donations be given to a cause, instead of to her?
Also, you are making the assertion that P-Momma and PennMommy are the same person, which you have yet to supply evidence for.
By the way if she is so sick and needs special window films, why is she outside in the sun with her kids on her MySpace page?
[Website redacted]
The only pictures I see are from 2005. Which is before her sun sensitivity got to the level it is now.
Thanks for playing, and please provide the IP address evidence in your next comment. If not, I think Google would be very interested in knowing what you've been posting here.
Also, if you don't use the screenname you use on your blog, I'm not going to allow you through, anymore. I've been courteous when trying to comment on your blog, and using my blogger account to do so. That you keep posting as anonymous implies you aren't so sure of your evidence, and want to cover your ass.
I didn't think there were worse scum than that preacher who stalked her kids but this anonyous poster comes close.
http://princessmc.proboards66.com/index.cgi?board=Books&action=display&thread=2545&page=100
I'm curious if you've read this:
http://princessmc.proboards40.com/index.cgi?board=Books&action=display&thread=2545&page=99
I think your desire to defend your friend is admirable as well as understandable. Having followed this drama for the past little while, though, it seems to me that the evidence is pretty compelling, IP addresses or no IP addresses (in any case, Possummomma admitted on her blog that the IP address was correct because her relative was staying with her).
So what do you believe? That the relative screwed Possummomma over some how? That she set her up? Is there really a dead son? I'm trying to understand this and understand people defending her when there is so much evidence and such an overwhelming sense that something ain't right.
I don't know Possummomma at all; I came to this through the drama with Penn Mommy. So I don't have any preconceived beef against the woman or desire to do her any harm. I get that she has friends and people who think she's the bee's knees. But again, something isn't right. A lot of information has been put out there. A couple of online book wish lists that include a bunch of books about Munchasen, about liars and about child killers. Are these actual book wish lists of Possummomma's, or is someone trying to make her look bad?
I really do admire your defense of your friend. I don't understand how so much drama can come out of a cable reality show.
Thank you for shedding any light you can on this.
gdnnop.blogspot.com is not the same website as gosselinsdonotneedourpity.blogspot.com.
No one on the latter site has claimed
that Penn Mommy was traced back to
PA. That is utter non-sense as is your continued defense of this insanity.
WOW!!! Some people sure do have a lot of time on their hands, don't they?
Berlie, I LOVE the libel post. I'm not at all surprised that it didn't make it through comment moderation! Wow...the stupid, it burns!
PMomma-if you read this, I'm another that will be really sad to not read your posts anymore, if you decide to give it up. However, I think I said something similar the last time idiots ruined the good thing that is your blog and that is that you have to do what's right for you, first and foremost. If blogging still feels good and is the right thing for you, do it. If it's not, that sucks for the rest of us, but just live your life and enjoy your beautiful family. I wish I could meet you guys some day. I will miss you if you go.
Berlie, sorry for somewhat hijacking the thread. I don't keep up every day with my blog reading and I haven't been added back to PMomma's blog yet. I hope you don't get attacked with the stupids from this as well. Well, any more than you already have, I mean. Keep Munchkin and Midnight RN safe!
-T
I can't believe these people. How rotten do you have to be to post someone's personal information on the web? We all tell our children never to give out that info but how can you protect your children from scum like this? People who value their own hurt feelings over another person's safety.
However messed up their reasoning is about whether P-Momma is or not this other blogger you would think they would have the decency to think about her family's welfare After all they seem to love children. How about thinking about children other than those of Jon and Kate.
I find it odd that the people who are claiming that she is a con- artist are taking it upon themselves to partake in criminal action ie hacking accounts etc.
What does that tell you?
@Jessica - Bottom line - do you think that it is acceptable to post people's phone numbers and other personal information without permission on the internet? Is it acceptable as revenge? Is it acceptable for any reason?
That is the only question here. I personally do not think that P-Momma would concoct such a convoluted ruse. But that does not matter. What matters is that the "Kate and Jon" people think it is OK to put others at risk.
I would not post personal information about my worst enemies on the internet as I know that there are lots of people who would be more than happy to a complete stranger's life miserable. Ever heard of 4chan?
Not only did the “Kate and Jon” people think it was acceptable to do that to someone they are angry with, they also (as Berlzebub notes) posted phone numbers of people who have absolutely nothing to do with the situation. I can imagine how those people will feel when a bunch of raging “Kate and Jon” fans start calling them up.
@ Jessica:
I'm curious if you've read this:
http://princessmc.proboards40.com/index.cgi?board=Books&action=display&thread=2545&page=99
Not really. I glanced over it, but it was a busy night.
I think your desire to defend your friend is admirable as well as understandable. Having followed this drama for the past little while, though, it seems to me that the evidence is pretty compelling, IP addresses or no IP addresses (in any case, Possummomma admitted on her blog that the IP address was correct because her relative was staying with her).
What compelling evidence? Yes, P-Momma admitted that the relative stayed with her, but that doesn't mean P-Momma and PennMommy are the same person.
If you consider that compelling evidence, then MidnightRN must be me. Since some of her comments come from the same IP address as mine.
If those accusing P-Momma can provide IP evidence that PennMommy posted to their blog before she was at or after she left P-Momma's house, that would be compelling evidence.
So what do you believe? That the relative screwed Possummomma over some how? That she set her up? Is there really a dead son?
I believe the relative commented on their blog from P-Momma's house. I don't necessarily think there was malicious intent in the action.
The dead son is a completely separate issue. The blog believes there is no dead son, because they think P-Momma and PennMommy are the same person. However, I've asked repeatedly for their evidence of the sock puppeting, and they've yet to provide any. If they can't prove the sock puppeting, then the rest of their assertions become questionable.
I'm trying to understand this and understand people defending her when there is so much evidence and such an overwhelming sense that something ain't right.
Evidence? Where? They haven't linked to anything supporting what they've said, instead of using Google Cache they've used screenshots, they keep saying there is IP evidence without providing it, and slinging around phone numbers and names like they're grass seed. If these people were prosecuting attourneys, then jails would be empty.
I don't know Possummomma at all; I came to this through the drama with Penn Mommy. So I don't have any preconceived beef against the woman or desire to do her any harm.
Well, I do know her. She and I have called each other, exchanged mail and email, her daughter has sent gifts to mine and vice-versa, and we've become really good friends. I'm glad you don't intend her any harm, but those at that other blog have implicated her for things that they have yet to provide proof of.
I get that she has friends and people who think she's the bee's knees. But again, something isn't right. A lot of information has been put out there.
Yes. That's called the Gish Gallop, and poisoning the well. They throw out so much information that it's almost impossible to deal with it all, and accuse the accused of things that have nothing to do with the accusations. It's a common tactic when people don't actually have support for their assertions.
A couple of online book wish lists that include a bunch of books about Munchasen, about liars and about child killers. Are these actual book wish lists of Possummomma's, or is someone trying to make her look bad?
Those aren't the first fake wishlists I've spotted, Jessica. I even did a post on one almost 10 months ago. Or perhaps you're referring to this wishlist from this comment. I'm not sure how they think that refers to P-Momma, because if you look in the upper left corner of the wishlist it says:
This list is for: Helga Bobonovich
Birthday: April 17
Shipping Address: Helga Bobonovich - Maryland Heights, MO
Unique Facts: Hi! I am imaginary
Judging by the books that P-Momma and I have talked about, I think those lists are unequivocally fake. They were created by people who don't agree with P-Momma. Why they did so, I can't pretend to know. My guess would be projection.
I really do admire your defense of your friend. I don't understand how so much drama can come out of a cable reality show.
It's possible that some people just have obsessive personalities.
However, if you'll look through the comments concerning the P-Momma/PennMommy fiasco, you won't find one comment that points out a flaw in their "theory". I've left two (the latest is in a comment I made above), and several others have said that they've tried with the same results. The only things they are allowing are the points that support them, without letting anyone, including P-Momma make refutations. Basically, they've turned their blog into a kangaroo court.
Thank you for shedding any light you can on this.
If you'll notice, the only thing I've asked for is evidence that P-Momma and PennMommy are the same person. Preferablly the IP evidence that they keep talking about. However, they keep moving the goalpost by making other claims. When I deal with those, they move the goalpost again. They have yet to provide anything supporting their P-Momma/PennMommy conspiracy theory.
To give you some idea, the MySpace pictures they talk about are from 2005, and "the brightest angel in heaven" comment is from a LiveJournal entry from around 2000-2001 when P-Momma lost her twins. They keep using non-sequiturs to try to support their position, and when I debunk those they just create more. The entire time, they ignore my requests for the IP evidence.
I've done enough online debating to know when someone doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. The ones involved here have made claims that they can't back up, and they're doing everything they can to keep from having to do so.
@ Clara Fying:
gdnnop.blogspot.com is not the same website as gosselinsdonotneedourpity.blogspot.com.
Well, duh. The GDDNOP blog is a counter to the gosselinsdonotneedourpity blog. It's a dissenting opinion.
No one on the latter site has claimed that Penn Mommy was traced back to PA. That is utter non-sense as is your continued defense of this insanity.
No, the ones on the latter website have made several claims, but that isn't one of them. And I agree that this is insanity. However, I don't take accusations against friends so lightly that I don't question the accusations. I've also found something interesting.
According to the gosselinsdonot... blog posting policies (which I had to find through Google Cache, by the way because they took it down):
2. Posts that reveal personal information about individual bloggers (not posted by the blogger themselves). This is inappropriate and, pretty much, a violation of that person’s privacy.
Ironically, it seems that someone from there has no such compunction on my blog. Of course, they've been posting as "anonymous" to avoid tieing them to that blog, but their statements mirror the beliefs from the comments on the accusing blog.
And then, in their FAQ (which is still up):
Q. The posts here don’t seem to be “balanced” - there seem to be more pro-Gosselin and anti-GWoP posters here. Why is that?
A. The content on this blog is largely driven by the people who submit blog entries and the people who post comments in response to blog entries. The vast majority of comments that are submitted are published. Therefore, the “slant” of this blog is simply a result of the people who choose to visit and post here. If the posters who object to the supposed bias would submit opposing viewpoints instead of complaining about the lack of opposing viewpoints, there would likely be more balance.
Twice, I've submitted opposing viewpoints to their accusations. Unfortunately, the first time I didn't think to keep a copy for myself. However, my comment made it through neither time.
How can anyone possibly say they aren't against opposing viewpoints when they don't let any opposing viewpoints through? I did not use vulgar language (I reserve that for here and a few other familiar blogs), and stated why I thought their views were in error. My comments never made it through moderation.
I'm asking for evidence of accusations against a friend. They are not only not providing any, but they're trying to blur the issue by making multiple statements that have nothing to do with my original question.
Want to know what that question is? "What proof do you have that P-Momma and PennMommy are the same person?"
If they can answer that one simple question, then we can work it out. If they can't prove that part, then the rest of their conspiracy theory falls apart.
I think this just shows between the comments on this post and the less detailed brief post I did about PMomma that there are a lot of us out there who care about her and hope that these people with no lives of their own give up soon and move on.
-Poodles
Thank you so much for the link to Gish Gallop. I'd never had a name for what Gosselinsdo....blogspot.com does with everyone who disagrees with them. I love it! I tried to go have a reasoned discussion with them on another issue and like you my comments either didn't get posted or were Gish Galloped. After a couple of tries I left.
Thank you so much for standing up fo Possummommy and I hope someone can put and end to this saga.
@Jessica - Bottom line - do you think that it is acceptable to post people's phone numbers and other personal information without permission on the internet? Is it acceptable as revenge? Is it acceptable for any reason?
Absolutely not.
That is the only question here.
That may be the only question for you, but it's not the only question for everyone. Some people believed this elaborate lie about a dying and then dead son, and they are understandably angry about being tricked and lied to.
People are still responsible for their own behavior, and that doesn't excuse crossing certain lines. But please understand that there are people coming here with legitimate issues other than the harm done to Possummomma.
I personally do not think that P-Momma would concoct such a convoluted ruse. But that does not matter. What matters is that the "Kate and Jon" people think it is OK to put others at risk.
For a place where (from what I can tell) logical arguments are valued, this is pretty weak. There are no "Kate and Jon" people who did x or think y. There are one or more individuals who apparently behaved inappropriately (I didn't see the evidence before it was redacted, so I can't say for sure what they wrote). I have no idea who posted these things, and I would venture to guess that you don't either. No idea whether they are "Kate and Jon" people or anti-"Kate and Jon" people. If I had to guess, I would think perhaps the most likely suspect would be someone taken in by Penn Mommy's story of a dying son. I never believed her in the first place, so I wasn't that angry when she was outed. But she really hurt some people. Can you understand that? You can access your indignation over someone posting personal info about another person on a website. Can you understand the indignation of someone who as been completely duped in that way?
I would not post personal information about my worst enemies on the internet as I know that there are lots of people who would be more than happy to a complete stranger's life miserable. Ever heard of 4chan?
Nope, never heard of him/her.
I do know that there is a LOT of info about Possummomma on the web. A little googling brings up pictures of her kids, enough info to find out where her husband works, etc. Again, this does not excuse someone posting any private information at all, but when someone puts so much of their life online, the lines between what's private and what's public can easily get blurred.
Not only did the “Kate and Jon” people think it was acceptable to do that to someone they are angry with, they also (as Berlzebub notes) posted phone numbers of people who have absolutely nothing to do with the situation. I can imagine how those people will feel when a bunch of raging “Kate and Jon” fans start calling them up.
Again, not "Kate and Jon" people or fans; one or more individuals. Maybe. Maybe someone posted info - again, I didn't see it. We don't know that anyone called anyone.
Not to be paranoid, but I can't help but note that during the Penn Mommy saga, her "son" "William" claimed that people called the hospital trying to track down his dying brother. Then claimed that people called the coroner about his dead brother. So I'm a little suspicious at this point when people start going on about harrassing phone calls.
I appreciate, again, the desire of people here to defend a friend. And I realize I am stepping into an established community and saying things you don't like or agree with. I don't know Possummomma at all. I do know that someone played some very sick games over the course of the past month, and the evidence seems to lead back to her. That's the only reason I'm here, bothering you folks.
I find it odd that the people who are claiming that she is a con- artist are taking it upon themselves to partake in criminal action ie hacking accounts etc.
Who is hacking into accounts? If someone is, how do you know that it's the same people who are claiming she's a con artist? Am I missing something?
I don't personally think from the evidence I've seen that her main aim is to con people financially, though it does appear that she's profited at times from the games she has played. At heart, I think she has some serious mental issues. ("She", in this case, being whoever is doing these things, perpetrating these frauds, etc. I believe it is your friend Possummomma, based on the evidence I've seen.)
@ Jessica:
("She", in this case, being whoever is doing these things, perpetrating these frauds, etc. I believe it is your friend Possummomma, based on the evidence I've seen.)
What evidence?
Okay, sorry to drown you in posts...
If those accusing P-Momma can provide IP evidence that PennMommy posted to their blog before she was at or after she left P-Momma's house, that would be compelling evidence.
I'm not sure that those that are accusing her know when Penn Mommy was supposedly at Possummomma's house. I haven't seen specific dates mentioned. If she was supposedly staying with her when her supposed son was supposedly ill, then it would date back to around mid-September. The accusers have, I believe, stated that the same IP address identified as Possummomma's was showing up months prior to that.
I do understand why you would want to see the evidence with your own eyes, but let me ask you: why would these people lie? Do you think they are mistaken, or do you think they have some vendetta against Possummomma? From what I can tell, Possummomma was simply what they stumbled upon trying to find more information about Penn Mommy.
The dead son is a completely separate issue. The blog believes there is no dead son, because they think P-Momma and PennMommy are the same person. However, I've asked repeatedly for their evidence of the sock puppeting, and they've yet to provide any. If they can't prove the sock puppeting, then the rest of their assertions become questionable.
I don't understand - are you saying that the whole saga is made up? There are plenty of people who followed Penn Mommy's blog and the story of "Jason" and his attack of appendicitis.
I guess I'm really trying to understand what you think is going on, Berlzebub.
They haven't linked to anything supporting what they've said, instead of using Google Cache they've used screenshots, they keep saying there is IP evidence without providing it, and slinging around phone numbers and names like they're grass seed.
I don't know a whole lot about the relative merits of Google Cache v. screenshots. I do know (since I've tried) that Penn Mommy's blog does not seem to come up on Google Cache. But I know I saw it. I'm not asking you to take my word for it, but that's *my* evidence. I saw the similarities between various aspects of Penn Mommy and Possummomma's stories - the stories about calling CPS on someone, the claims of appendicitis in a child, the cease and desist letters that were referenced within a few days of each other. These could all be coincidences, yeah. But I tend to suscribe to Occam's Razor, so I don't think they are.
Well, I do know her. She and I have called each other, exchanged mail and email, her daughter has sent gifts to mine and vice-versa, and we've become really good friends. I'm glad you don't intend her any harm, but those at that other blog have implicated her for things that they have yet to provide proof of.
I guess we're just not going to see eye to eye on this. I think they have provided proof. My standard of proof would probably be lower than yours simply because I don't have any prior connection to Possummomma or desire to defend her. You reference attorneys and the jails being empty, but we aren't talking about putting someone in jail. I don't think criminal legal standards need to be applied in internet arguments.
Whether there is a civil libel case or not - I don't know. I'm not an attorney. I do know that people tend to throw the word libel around a lot on the internet. I don't *think* that it's that easy to prove libel in U.S. courts. I know it's a lot easier in England (sorry, getting off topic).
Yes. That's called the Gish Gallop, and poisoning the well. They throw out so much information that it's almost impossible to deal with it all, and accuse the accused of things that have nothing to do with the accusations. It's a common tactic when people don't actually have support for their assertions.
But WHY? What is it that you think these women at GDNNOP have against Possummomma that they are trying to "throw out so much information" in an effort to malign her?
Doesn't it make more sense that they were following the trail of Penn Mommy and it led to Possummomma?
Judging by the books that P-Momma and I have talked about, I think those lists are unequivocally fake. They were created by people who don't agree with P-Momma. Why they did so, I can't pretend to know. My guess would be projection.
Okay, I could believe that about the child killer books. But the books about lying and Munchasen - maybe still created by someone who dislikes her (I guess), but certainly that suggests that there is a person or people who believe she is not truthful. Not just people who have issues with her atheism (which I assume is what you think people have issues with?).
It's possible that some people just have obsessive personalities.
Lots of people do. Following the pro-Gosselin and anti-Gosselin discussions online, one realizes that quickly.
If you'll notice, the only thing I've asked for is evidence that P-Momma and PennMommy are the same person. Preferablly the IP evidence that they keep talking about. However, they keep moving the goalpost by making other claims.
Well, to be fair, there are other claims (other than the IP address business) in the original posts. I'm not sure if stuff was added later - I'd have to read over the threads again. But I think they've been closed to comments now, anyway.
To give you some idea, the MySpace pictures they talk about are from 2005, and "the brightest angel in heaven" comment is from a LiveJournal entry from around 2000-2001 when P-Momma lost her twins. They keep using non-sequiturs to try to support their position, and when I debunk those they just create more.
I thought the Princess Marie Chantal of Greece board post was pretty concise and clear - that was why I included the link.
According to the gosselinsdonot... blog posting policies (which I had to find through Google Cache, by the way because they took it down):
2. Posts that reveal personal information about individual bloggers (not posted by the blogger themselves). This is inappropriate and, pretty much, a violation of that person’s privacy.
Ironically, it seems that someone from there has no such compunction on my blog. Of course, they've been posting as "anonymous" to avoid tieing them to that blog, but their statements mirror the beliefs from the comments on the accusing blog.
Berlzebub, you're disappointing me! :-) You're such a strict proponent of logic and evidence, and yet you believe that the people who posted phone numbers are definitely from GDNNOP, with no evidence.
I said a previous post, the people who I would imagine are the angriest would be those that believed Penn Mommy and prayed for her "son", etc. Which isn't the GDNNOP folks.
Want to know what that question is? "What proof do you have that P-Momma and PennMommy are the same person?"
I can only say that what I've read is proof to me. Obviously it doesn't meet your standard, maybe it doesn't meet a legal standard, but again, we aren't talking about throwing Possummomma in jail.
Here's what I've seen, reading her blog and various related pages that are cached online: this is a woman who seems to have kind of constant drama in her life. A lot of health issues, both her own and her children's. A lot of conflicts with other people online. Various stories that by themselves seem unremarkable, but when you take them as a whole, start to appear suspicious and unlikely (again, to me). For instance: the story about her daughter and the Xmas essay and the preacher who harrassed her. Does anyone have independent confirmation of any of these things? (That's a sincere question - I've read cached pages, but not everything.) From what I can see, it's all, a friend told her that this guy was speaking at a church about her (I never saw the name of the church). Maybe all this stuff happened. Maybe these people were made up by her. I tend to suspect the latter. The same with Tom and Nancy (I think those were the names?) - the couple she had some conflict with and called CPS on? When I read through the various posts about this conflict, the whole business screams sockpuppets to me. I'm obviously coming at it from a perspective of already questioning Possummomma's veracity, but still. Do the rest of you in this community get harrassed so often? Stalked? Get in conflicts with Christians or whoever who just happen to come on your blogs and start messing with you? Maybe you do - I really don't know. Again, this is your community, and I've only been reading these pages for a couple of days. But Possummomma seems to me to stick out like a sore thumb as a target of strife and drama. You all seem like intelligent, logic-driven people, so I'm surprised that you aren't more wary of what seems to me to be a classic case of Munchasen by Internet.
Actually, I read those articles when they first came out. There were no names or phone numbers given out. Kate is a shrew blog gave out some phone numbers. This is all pretty intersting stuff. That is the problem. People put their life out there all over the blog and internet and make it very public. Including your friend. She had everything on public.She had the pictures of her children on public blogs and web albums. We must be smarter than this. There was an interesting piece on GMA about this today that said people should have everything set on private if the want it to be confidential. I feel sorry for this mama character somewhat. But I have to tell you, I have been all over the internet reading up on this situation including what you wrote and she appears to be very guilty of being what you referred to as a sock puppet. Can I ask why she is not defending herself. What is your interest in this? Or maybe she doesn't need to defend herself. Maybe she should just keep quiet for awhile and this will all be just a bad dream.
Jessica,
I don't personally think from the evidence I've seen that her main aim is to con people financially, though it does appear that she's profited at times from the games she has played. At heart, I think she has some serious mental issues. ("She", in this case, being whoever is doing these things, perpetrating these frauds, etc. I believe it is your friend Possummomma, based on the evidence I've seen.)
I think that instead of just mentioning this evidence you should provide it.
You are making VERY SERIOUS accusations. The responsivble thing to do is to back them up. I have heard a lot of people talk about this evidence and how damning it is but as of yet no one has provided it or provided a link.
Evidence that is not presented is the same as no evidence.
I am really not sure what the hang-up on IP's is. Possum has already copped to the fact that this person was staying with her. What would getting an IP do for you?
The "evidence" is that Possum has posted on an anti Gosselin site several months ago and was involved with this group. The evidence is writing style and events written about that were were identical. The evidence is the list of books this woman finds an interest in. The evidence is the web communities this woman belongs to.
The evidence is the multiple lies told over time. Lies like "Ive been a GDNNOPer since the beginning." Is this true? If not, then why did she post this on their site?
The evidence is that people who attend UCLA have come out stating that there was no student who died of an appendictis last week. Don't you think SOMEONE would post SOMETHING about it online? Maybe this person didn't have a facebook himself or a myspace, but what are the odds that NONE of his 18 year old friends did?
Also, no obituary...no record whatsoever. You said the family posted info about a memorial? They did no such thing. They posted a picture that was found in possum's picassa album (speaking of which, why would she need to host a picture for someone in her album? A picture can be saved to a hard drive and doesn't need to be "hosted" by a site like that)and a few words. They posted no birth or death dates. Nothing that would even come close to being considered evidence of death.
Why if they were staying together did Possum never mention it on her blog, especially when he was in critical condition with the same affliction that her daughter had?
She may want to distance herself from all of this. Fine, I don't care. No one is interested in bringing her down. We are only interested in getting the truth out about Penn Mommy. She lied and duped a lot of people. If you want to say they are different so that she can go about her blogging life, fine! Be my guest. Don't try to perpetuate the lie any further. Anyone with half of a brain knows the death is a lie.
This is the last comment I will post here as I am SURE you spin doctors will have an answer for everything. Kind of like the miscarriages...guess she miscarried twins twice?
a correction to my original post. I earlier said that people from "UCLA" came out. I meant to say "USC"
Hmm - Don't know if my post this afternoon got lost or I forgot to post it after spell-checking in another program. But basically:
@jessica
You seem to be a concern troll. I am not sure what's in all this for you but it seems to be exactly what you are accusing someone else of - getting people upset for your own gratification. What is your vendetta or pay-off here. What do you really want? I think you're getting it already: gratification in the fact that others are getting worked up about your statements.
So there you go - you win. You have upset us. Good job.
http://possummomma.paperbackswap.com/profile/
Sorry for those who say that the munchausens book list was made just to make her look bad, but Possummomma has had that book list account since 2007. Read the above link.
The people posting her paperbackswap list are insane. For as long as I have known her Possummomma has been interested in MBP. But, that's not all. She's had a majority of books on FLDS because she volunteers for a place that helps child brides and another place dealing with children's rights. I have a book about murders on my paperbackswap list. Does that make me a murderer? Look at everthing else on her list. One book isn't proof and it was on her amazon wishlist for seven years because it's out of print. Her list includes the Amish. Is she Amish? She has books about chemistry and Steven Colbert. One book out of the 100 she has listed in history. That's not a smoking gun.
How do the people at the Jon and Kate site explain that possummomma has met hundreds of people in real life and none noticed her killing her children to fit the MBP profile? I met Possummomma in 1985. She was ten. What does it have to do with the Jon and Kate sight in any way? To accuse someone of MBP is actionable. Her children are beautiful well cared for jewels. There was a blogger I can't remember who called them the Lake Wobegon children. Possummomma is not pennmommy and I can guarantee that because I know possummomma and saw pennmommy at her mom's house also in Bakersfield. This internet IP match is fucking stupid because that's not what they are basing it on. They are basing this shit on a site meter map. Possummomma has some other family in Bakersfield who may have put this Pennmommy up for the night(s). Does that make her dad, mom, uncles, aunts, grandparents pennmommmy too? I read this dramatic saga from 3-10pm. No one has proven that pennmommy is possummmomma or the nine other people accused of being sockpuppets. The people at that fucked up lynch mob site are starting with the false assumption that they are the same person and trying to cover their ass as they get owned by people correcting their lies. If it's not a court of law why are they going to lengths on this that they are to accuse an innocent woman who got bad hands in health? Fuck! For that matter, her kids have been sick but she's not posting about it hardly ever. That's not a MBP trait! If she was scamming then you have to prove that Berlie was part of it. You also would be accusing her husband as an accomplice. All proof is contrary to that. Go to poodles place and read the comment by Dian. She had to be in on it to if it's true because she has none her for years and can back up my claim that her daughter was sick and because of possummomma being an advocate she got better. Did you know possummomma is also a patient advocate who was assigned reading in 2007 to study how to be a good advocate or spot a warning sign of abuse?
I laugh at the thing about pdaddy making a lot of money too. Maybe at Harvard but not at CSUB. Even still read Berlies blog where Possummomma told him to post a post about her requiring him to say the family wasn't broke. What scam artist doesn't know about a fund raiser then says don't do it and when she gets convinced to let people help says she wants Berlie to give a full disclosure to not have people donate under false pretenses? That doesn't make sense.
Possummomma would defend herself but is smart enough to know that you would put it on the ammunition pile. She wasn't involved in this to begin with so I think if I was getting shit about something not my fault but had a mom or family saying please don't say bad things about the family relatives then I would take the silent approach. She made a comment defending herself and it didn't get posted in the first place. A hundred people have defended her because they actually fucking know her in real life but you are taking the word of a bunch of fucked up people on a site for a reality show. I read the google cache on Pennmommy in this to. Notable to me was her not posting but her son posting. Kind of damages the impression that pennmommy was blogging about her son to get sympathy when yall begged her to keep posting updates so you could pray for him and offer her help which yall notice she wouldn't accept but that doesn't matter does it? Even the memorial page says don't give us money or flowers just send money to a charity. Where the hell do people get the idea that pennmommy asked for dick? If pennmommy screwed some people out of thousands of dollars then maybe yeah you could say she was a scam artist but that's not the case is it? Is pennmommy is a March of Dimes fundraiser who trolls the internet to find sympathetic groups to give donations to help a charity of her choice. Do you know con artists like that?
Use your brain. If possummomma was pennmommy what the fuck was to gain by creating a sock puppet to deny help and suggest donations to a charity? Starting out a blog so you could kill of your son to up the MoD intake is the stupidest accusation I've ever heard.
- Jennifer the P-family friend of 23 years and counting.
Berlzebub? please check your email.
Look in spam too.
Jessica? you can say whatever you want, but the fact remains that many people were hurt by the fakery of Pennmommy.
Pennmommy just does not exist.
Alot of people were taken in by her, and bought her stories of volunteering with Jon and Kates kids. Many people prayed for the fake Jason.
Possummomma made this all up.
People are hurt by lies.
Still Pennmommy has not resurfaced or proven she exists.
Jason does not exist.
Possummomma? prove they exist.
Simple!
Prove it.
@ Jessica:
I guess I'm really trying to understand what you think is going on, Berlzebub.
Okay. Perhaps I am being unclear. When I get mad, there's a tendency for that to happen. So, I'll try to spell it out.
This is going to sound callous, but I don't mean it that way. Whether Penn Mommy is who she says she is, whether she has a dead son, or anything about the Gosselin's show is not my concern, right now. The only thing I'm concerned about is addressing the allegations that P-Momma is Penn Mommy, and the allegations that P-Momma is a liar, fraud, and con-artist.
You said that you don't believe that P-Momma's life can be as dramatic as it is, but then visit a blog because of some of that drama. Perhaps you should research the term viral.
I find the baseless accusations being thrown around to be not only childish, but assanine. Basically, those saying there's no way that P-Momma can have so many health problems (when she has lupus) and real life drama are doing a variation of the argument from ignorance. They haven't known of anyone with those sort of problems, so no one with those problems must exist. Even you were just guilty of it.
@ Anonymous:
Well, hell. My phone number is in the phone book, but that doesn't mean I want someone publishing it on the internet while they make allegations against me such as these.
Concerning her defending herself:
Please keep up. She left two comments on this blog, which you apparently didn't read. And, as I pointed out in my post, she's not allowed to post and defend herself on at least one blog making the allegations.
@ Imdone:
As Jennifer pointed out above, there is an answer for everything that doesn't need spin.
I'm glad you aren't posting again, because your Gish Gallop gives me a headache.
Also, does anyone else find it humorous that "the last comment [(s)he] will post here" ended up being two posts?
@ Anonymous:
Everyone please look at that link. You've got to see it to believe it. The munchausens book list has two books in the wishlist section about munchausens. Oh, but that's out of 32 books. Which Jennifer explains right after his comment.
That is the weakest evidence I've seen yet. Thanks for the laugh, anon.
Please, everyone. Point and laugh at the moron.
@ Jennifer:
Thank you so much for commenting. Hopefully, some will realize that P-Momma is more that just electrons flowing through their internet connection. People seem to forget that there's actually people on the internet.
@ anonymous:
I got it, and responded.
Also, since you have a GMail account, you can actually use it to post comments and keep people from confusing you with other anonymous commenters (one of the complaints in your email).
@ anonymous:
WTF? Jessica is on your side, you moron. What is it, anyone who makes a comment more than you can read without paging down must be defending P-Momma?
As for your allegations -
To quote you:
People are hurt by lies.
Yeah they are, so stop doing it.
@ Everyone throwing around accusations against P-Momma:
If you've got actual evidence that P-Momma is a fraud, I'd love to see it. Not just anecdotal (that means hearsay, by the way), but send me an email with links. I'm not interested in her phone number (I've already got it, and none of you have sent it to me), address (I've got that too, because I mailed her a fucking check), a livejournal entry from almost nine years ago, or a MySpace page from four years ago. Please send something up-to-date that proves your allegations.
Also, any further anonymous comments will not be allowed through moderation. If you have a Gmail account, I request that you use it. You don't have to, but it would help verify that you aren't a sockpuppet. If you don't have a GMail, they're really easy to get (and free). If you don't wnat to do either, just click on the Name/URL button below the commenting box. You can make up your own. However, please stick with the same name. You apparently hate sock-puppeting as much as I do, so you can understand these requests.
I've gotten as much information as I can - both from the sites linked and you, Berlzebub - and I'm with P-Momma. This whole drama thing is lame and annoying. I hope everything gets worked out.
Good luck, P-Momma! Do what's best for you and your family, and I hope this all works out. I'm sorry all this crap and drama keeps following you around.
I have not had much spare time recently so have missed all this.
Having just read all the posts and comments it seems to me some one is adding 2 and 2 and making 7.Which leads me (possibly doing the same) to wonder whether this is just some half arsed attempt to get back at PM for the recent NPZ fiasco.
@ Baal's Bum:
Your math is correct, but the NPZ fiasco is just a smokescreen.
Judging by the emails and comments I've seen, they're just grasping at straws in desperation. They've formed a hypothesis, invested a great deal of time into finding evidence to support it, and now can't handle it that we're finding they're cherry picking the evidence.
They're house of cards is not only falling, but it's falling because someone is pouring water on it to prove how weak it really was.
Crikey- these people are insane! especially the booklist thing- if anyone was ever to look at my bookshelves they would be horrified! lots of texts about murder- yes even a few about Munchausen's, definitely some about psychology- wow must make me a liar and a witch to boot!
people should get off their fora and start thinking about the real world -and the real people in it!
Wow, how bizarre. I follow P-momma only out of all of these, so I had no idea anything was going on until her blog went off. I'm terribly sorry for her that this is happening, and I can't understand why some people see such a need to make up conspiracy theory connections about a person and then harass them to try and make it stick. My thoughts and concerns go to the p-momma family.
@ Psychodiva:
The psychology stuff explains your screen name. I just thought you considered yourself mentally unstable. LOL
Cherry picking seems to be their favorite tactic. I've been exchanging emails with one of the anonymous commenters, and they gave me a link to P-Momma's family tree, saying that some of the names involved don't show up on it. Therefore, they don't exist.
Unfortunately, they forgot something very important. The geneology they showed me was paternal. Every family tree for one person has two branches, unless they are saying P-Momma is the Second Coming. Which would be really rich.
And if I read another accusations about "Munchausen", I'm going to scream. According to the evidence they showed me, P-Momma must also be an ex-mormon.
Like I said, they're so desperate to feel like they've been wronged, that they are wronging someone else to keep from looking like fools.
Unfortunately, they're in a hole and refuse to stop digging. If they don't get out, and fill it back up then they're going to loose even more credibility than they claim they've already lost.
Berlzebub,
Thank you for posting this information about Possummomma. I have been a long-time reader (though an infrequent commenter) of her blog and was absolutely frantic for information about what had happened after her last post and the subsequent disappearance of her blog. Please let her know that there are still people out here IRL who believe her, support her, and will miss her very much. Her posts were always a bright spot to my day, and it makes me very sad to think that I will not get to read them any more.
I found out about this through Pharyngula this afternoon. If you could let P'momma know how sorry we all are here about what she's going through, I'd appreciate it.
To "anonymous": It takes a special kind of person/s to do the despicable things you did. Hope you're proud of yourself.
Wow, just wow. After reading all of this I just wonder; since when does logic dictate that you start with "x is true", then proceed down a slippery slope? You cannot argue from the stance that P-momma=Penn-momma, unless you can show that the proposition is true. In the comments here I've seen examples of poisoning the well, moving the goalpost, argument from ignorance, argument from google, argument from false probabilities, gish gallops, slippery slopes, appeals to emotion, an appeal to pity, and probably quite a few I'm missing.
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by the way, calladus has been sanctioned by the great squid lord PZ to spread the word of why her blog is down. It makes for an interesting read:
I are a happy link, plz dont cliky me or ill brake jour legs!
@ Anonymous:
Sorry, anon. Thanks for the comment, but I had to stop anonymous comments because of difficulty in figuring out who was who. Check out my commenting policy in the upper left corner.
Berlzebub-
I read through all the comments and have decided it's probably in everyone's best interest that I refrain from addressing any of the asinine comments by the various trolls of one stripe or other. Except for that particular address.
So, you mentioned you were keeping a list of people who were interested in following Pmomma should she decide to start blogging again? I'd like to be added to the list, please! Hopefully you can go back and verify that I was an infrequent commenter, but I should be there nonetheless.
Also, as I already commented on The Calladus Blog, send Possummomma another well wisher's sympathies.
@ Infidel Rooster:
I need your email address. You can send it to me by clicking on my s/n and looking for the email link.
Berlie,
Thanks for everything you've done for P-Momma, for reason and for those of us who miss her blog. Yours and hers were my two favorite atheist blogs, so I hope she continues to write at some point. I will email you to be added to the list. Thanks! -T
Re. the book about MBP being on a wishlist - I should think it's highly unlikely that someone suffering from MBP would be interested in studying it. It's not the sort of condition you fake, if you have it you're more likely to deny that it even exists.
@ Jenny:
But didn't you hear, after the Enron scandal, they found Bamboozling for Dummies on a CEO's bookshelf. [/sarcasm]
I'd thought about it, and Princess also brought it up. However, considering they don't seem to understand that 2 books out of 32 doesn't quite make sense, I figured that would go way above their heads.
Late to comment on this whole fiasco. Just wanted to say I hope that P3 is recovered from her surgery and that Pmomma is doing okay from the stress of all these lies. I am still in her corner and miss reading her blog. I will try to give my email so that is can be passed on.
I want to thank everyone for their sweet e-mails of support. This experience has shaken my trust. I have always believed that family, even extended family, should be put as a first priority. In general, this has served me well. Unfortunately it only took one relative to undo my security in that principle. It's one thing to get burned by a friend, but quite another to get burned by family.
I don't know if I'll blog on possummomma again. I'm working with some one from Google to help me get access back. The mail I got today said that an error message I was getting when I accepted invites from Berlie was a new bug in the blogger system. It could take a couple of weeks to unravel.
I can't tell you how awful the last two weeks have been. I have lost eighteen pounds. That's not an altogether bad thing, but it's not healthy for someone with my disease. No matter what people say, I want you to know that I didn't drop the blog only because of this drama. It was a "last straw" situation. I've given up a lot in the last two years and I don't regret being an open person. There was an implied trust - I'd give an honest accounting of this journey and my readers would respect privacy beyond what I shared. When "the outsiders" started putting up picturs of the kids and screen caps of my blog, I feel violated. It's one thing to put your life out there- another to have someone do it for you without your consent. The number of lies and unfactual statements was mind blowing. My entire family suffered because of this.
I won't comment on pennmommy after this. What I want to say is that she's done a fair bit of truth stretching. She used people in my immediate family. It could've been unintentional, but that's something only time will tell. She betrayed our trust. She put us in a bad situation. That still doesn't give me enough reason to out her publicly during this time in her life. I've seen her name and phone number on the web. What I've seen is correct. If you e-mailed me for verfication of that, I hope you understand why I can't verify it. This is still family. She is still grieving. She has had phone calls where she was asked to confirm her "realness". I have been told that even that action wasn't enough to stop the hunt. She is an imperfect human being who has a lot of apologizing to do. Now is not the time to ask for the apology.
Most painful were the accusations about my childrens' medical history. The MBP diagnosis is a joke. Children with MBP parents tend to die. The hallmark of that disease is that they don't get better despite treatments or have undiagnosable problems that defy reason. My children are happy and healthy. Grace is recovering from her surgery with no complications.
I hope you all are happy and healthy.
I'm very, very sad and upset by this turn of events. I used to be very open about myself and my kids on my blog. After seeing everything that Pmomma has been through I took every reference I could find to my family off of my site. I'm sure there is still stuff out there and it is frightening the lengths some people will go to. This whole dispute seems ridiculous.
I will miss the blog - I'm very upset and will miss her voice. I'm a mom and an atheist too and so much of what she said resonated with me. I'll miss her.
I only recently found out about all this, and just sat down and read through everything.
P.Momma, if you read this, I hope things are getting better for you and your family - you just can't believe the lengths some people go to sometimes, can you?
If you ever do start up blogging again, I'd like to be on that read-list. I'm going to miss reading your thoughts.
Good luck and best wishes.
I'm really upset about all this. I've known pmomma for a long time through her LJ blog. I was very puzzled when the blog became invite only as I think I missed it during the whole Gosselin drama.
I feel bad that her religous views led to vicious personal level attacks. I do not have the same views as her, but I don't care - I just enjoy reading her writing. I appreciate the diversity of people I meet on the net.
And as far as all the books on her list on MBP, child crime, mormoms, atheists etc - that's just her interests. I've read some of the books that she's mentioned, found them interesting.
Late to comment on this whole fiasco. Just wanted to say I hope that P3 is recovered from her surgery and that Pmomma is doing okay from the stress of all these lies. I am still in her corner and miss reading her blog. I will try to give my email so that is can be passed on.
Hi Berlie,
Congrats on the twins!
P-momma just posted some pics that lead to some albums with pics of her frolicking in the sun and water. Is she cured? I don't see any protective clothing and she looks happy and very healthy.
Go Here.
Hope the link works.
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